Plot Driven vs Character Driven Stories and Idiots Who Don't Know What They Are



By Wendy C Allen

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While you are here, please take the time to read this:

Who is Tod Murphy? 

Do you know who this woman is?

She might be the woman who murdered my son. 

Plot Driven vs Character Driven Stories and Idiots Who Don't Know What They Are

OMG!

Have you ever run into one of those people, you the type, thinks they know everything, lectures everyone about and gets it wrong, and even after 75 people in the comments tell them, they got it wrong, they still continue onward in their error?

Well that's what we have here today.

Now, the title seemed innocent enough: 

Plot and Characterization are really the same thing. Here's why and what that means for writers...

Now I can agree with the title. Plot and Characterization are more or less the same on some levels. There are differences of course, but they go hand in hand.

But you can have a plot without characters and you can have characters without plot. Uncommon, yes, but they exist.

You can have a plot without characterization.

But here's something: Characters need characterization.

The plot does not.

The plot is the map by which your characters get from point A to point B. Point A being where they are at the beginning of the story. Point B being the end goal the character reaches by the end of the story.

I can agree with the title, but not most of the rest of the OP.

Plot and Characterization are really the same thing. Here's why and what that means for writers...



Plot and Characterization are really the same thing. Here's why and what that means for writers... from r/writing

Plot and Characterization are really the same thing. Here's why and what that means for writers...



Plot Driven vs Character Driven Stories and Idiots Who Don't Know What They Are

>>Plot and Characterization are really the same thing. Here's why and what that means for writers...

Now I can agree with the title. Plot and Characterization are more or less the same on some levels. There are differences of course, but they go hand in hand.

But you can have a plot without characters and you can have characters without plot. Uncommon, yes, but they exist.

You can have a plot without characterization.

But here's something: Characters need characterization.

The plot does not.

The plot is the map by which your characters get from point A to point B. Point A being where they are at the beginning of the story. Point B being the end goal the character reaches by the end of the story.

I can agree with the title, but not most of the rest of the OP.

Okay, for starters, you clearly have no clue what "Character Driven" even means, if you think a Character Driven story has ANYTHING to do with characterization at all. Characterization and Character Driven are two completely different things.

Plot driven and character driven have ACTUAL dictionary definitions that have been used by publishers for close to 200 years, and you'll be hard pressed to convince a publisher of any other definition when it comes time to get your book published and you submit a plot-driven story to a publisher that only accepts character-driven novels.

Please open a dictionary and try reading it once in a while. Here, let me do that for you. Here's what the dictionary says:

Plot = the main events of a play, novel, movie, or similar work, devised and presented by the writer as an interrelated sequence; the sequence of events in a play, novel, movie, or similar work.

Characterization = the creation or construction of a fictional character; the process by which the writer reveals the personality of a character.

Characterization is something all stories require, Character Driven or otherwise.

I can't believe, you are trying to sound "smart" by saying characterization has anything to do with the concept of a Character Driven story! It's comparing apples to oranges!

all stories are plot-driven, but all plots are character-driven

An yet...

Plot driven = a story that is 75% or more narrative/description.

Character driven = a story that is 75% or more dialogue

So tell me, how can a book be BOTH 75% or more dialogue AND 75% or more narrative.

Simple answer: It can't be. And therefore, no, not according to the dictionary, no, all stories are NOT plot-driven, nore are all plots character-driven.

We are peddlers of words. Shame on any word peddler who doesn't know the definition of a word they peddle.

Character driven has NOTHING to do with characterization.

Character Driven refers to the fact the the character is FRONT & CENTRE AT ALL TIMES; the character never leaves the stage, the character is always talking, always thinking, always there, in your face. It has NOTHING to do whatsoever with the act of creating the character. You have so little clue what Character Driven means that it isn't even funny. Please try to find out the meanings of words before you start arguing something and make a fool of yourself. Good god!

How can a writer not know the difference between character driven and characterization?

Character Driven Stories are an actual STYLE of writing. A physical METHOD of laying out your manuscript on the page. It has nothing to do with creating the character aka characterization.

And THIS, btw IS a Character Driven, plotless story, it's called Slice of Life and is an actual genre. Look it up.

>>I've also seen passages, especially in literary fiction, of a character thinking about who they are and about their problems for pages on end without doing anything. These scenes don't work, either, as they try to trick the reader into thinking characterization is happening. Again, it might LOOK like that, but there still isn't a polarity shift and the character isn't doing anything. A scene that only delivers info is not a scene.

Stories without plots, do EXACTLY this. They focus fully, 100% on the character and the character only. It is possible to have an entire novel, be nothing more then the 100 page monologue of a character, while he sits on a bench waiting for the bus and the entire novel be only 10 minutes of his life.

The very fact that you pointed this style out, proves you know NOTHING about writing the Character Driven or Slice of Life genres.

Do you know why you see those types of scenes in Literary (which can't even bother with grammar rules enough to bother capitalizing)? Because they are actual genres. A Character Driven Story is a type of genre with-in Literary Fiction. Slice of Life is a genre within Literary Fiction. Plot Driven Story is a genre within Literary Fiction.

A Plot Driven story, btw, has no characters, and is very simply a travelogue style description of a place. Edgar Allan Poe's "The Landscape Garden" is a prime example of what a Plot Driven Story is written like. Go read it. Maybe you'll learn something.

>>I've seen numerous posts and comments on the sub debating the importance and differences of plot-driven vs. character-driven writing.

Anyone who tries to debate such nonsense is an absolute idiot who never took the time to open up damned dictionary. Really, people want to argue with a dictionary on what a word means? There's nothing to argue about. It's a simple open and shut case. Open the book, and there's the answer in plain black and white. What the hell is there to argue about?

I mean you can try to change Webster's dictionary and the literal meanings of words to fit your theories all you want, but, when push comes to shove, a publisher who asks for plot driven or character driven stories is gonna go with Daniel Webster and not some college professor's hypothesis.

Sure, you can print up your instructor's little lecture and send it to the publisher along with your manuscript, to say "See? This is what he says it means." But the publisher is still gonna give you a nice fat rejection slip for not following the ACTUAL guidelines of the ACTUAL publishing industry.

Sorry to have to burst your bubble, but, you really don't know what you're talking about. Words have meanings. We as professionals in our careers, should know that. And if you don't know the dictionary definitions of the vocabulary of your own career, you are letting your unprofessional amateurism show in front of publishers and editors who DO know what words mean and are thinking you might be in the wrong career if you're too arrogant to open a dictionary.

Wither or not a story is character-driven or plot-driven is ONLY important, if you are aiming to be published by a publisher who specifies they want that. If you're not aiming at a publisher who specifies that's what they are looking for then, you've nothing to worry about. Just write your damned novel. If someone is looking into writing plot-driven or character-driven stories it's probably because they have a specific publisher in mind that they want to work with and none of your business to criticize them for trying to learn more about the style. In fact, you bitching about it makes you come off as an arrogant bully looking to start a fight. I mean, if you are not looking to write either style to begin with, then why the heck are you fussing over it? Seems a rather pointless thing to worry about, to me. If people are looking to write that style, then let them. They aren't bothering you.

Very few novels are either one or the other. A story that is PURELY plot driven or PURELY character driven is unusual and you'll know it when you see one. They stick out like a sore thumb. Most novels are in fact a pretty even 50/50 split between narrative and dialogue.

Plot-driven and character-driven, the actual terms, when actually used correctly, are two very distinctive writing styles within the Literary Fiction genre. So, if you are writing genre fiction, you're not going to need to worry about these things at all.

>>It's just exposition rendered in dialogue to try to trick the reader into finding it interesting. 

Trick the reader into finding something interesting? You show me the author who goes out of their way to deceive the reader intentional and kick 'em in the balls. WTH? What type of a person thinks authors do that?

Clearly you have just gotten off reading a book that twisted your panties and now you feel the need to rant about it, but wow! Accusing authors of tricking their readers into finding things interesting? Damn. All those millions of screaming fan girls on the planet, who don't know all their favorite authors just tricked them into being interested in their favorite character.

I find it utterly ridiculous when children try to make themselves sound big by bickering online the meanings of things, they know nothing about.

The fact remains, ALL fiction has both plot and character, and that has nothing to do with the genres called a Plot-Driven story and a Character-Driven story which are very distinctive and specific sub-genres within Literary Fiction, no different then how Paranormal Romance and Historical Romance are two sub-genres within the Romance genre.

Now I agree characterization is a requirement, and plots are usually necessary. But statements like:

>>Every scene needs to advance them both simultaneously.

Who died and made you god?

Since when is this a requirement? Do you even read?

You know who you need to read? Charles Dickens. You might have hear of him. He's a classic that a lot of authors strive to be like. Known for his Character Driven classic: A Christmas Carol and his Plot Driven slog: A Tale of Two Cities. Read both. You'll fast see the difference between a dialogue prance in the park, and a narrative ridden drag through the mud. You can follow Scrooge quickly through his past, present, and future. or you can read 24 pages straight describing the ripples of the water as it slooooooowly flows under the bridge. A Christmas Carol is a perfect example of a Character Driven Story while A Tale of Two Cities is a perfect example of a Plot Driven story.

But neither of them meet your requirement of *"Every scene needs to advance them both simultaneously."*

>>You'll notice if you really focus on the polarity shifts, you'll get to know your characters faster and more deeply, which will make seeing their arcs easier, as well. 

Really? I don't think so. How about this. When you climb down off your high horse, here's a 28,000 word character profile for you to read

... yes a 60 page charter bio.... I've never written a character arch in my life, but in the past 40 years I have written 130 novels and 2,000 short stories about that one character and defy you to find an author that knows their character better than I know him.

Here have two more...

If you want readers to see your characters as real people... create characters who act like real people. There's no hidden formula to creating characters.

SOURCE: I'm a published writing instructor; I have a degree in English Literature; I am an editor of 2 Literary magazines that focus specifically on Character Driven Stories; and I'm the author of 130+ novels, 2,000+ short stories, 30+ non-fiction books, a few dozen stage plays, and a few comic book scripts Disney's Uncle Scrooge and Donald Duck.

I'm famous for writing novels that are 100% Character Driven, meaning 100% dialogue, no narrative, no description, at all, with no plot anywhere in sight, full on straight up dialogue, that has no purpose whatsoever.




So, I was over on Reddit, you like I often am, and found this question. And answered it, like I do. However, the answer I initially gave was a simple generic answer. If you want to read my original answer unaltered, simply click on Reddit's embed feature links which Reddit provides for webmasters to be able to post their answers on their websites, while linking back to the original thread on Reddit (if you didn't know Reddit offered and encouraged the use of this feature, look for it in the "share" features underneath every post, comment, and reply on Reddit).

I am answering random questions today about world building, over on Reddit and decided to take my answers from there and expand upon them even further over here. So that's what this page is. Me rambling on about various aspects of world building techniques I use when writing the Quaraun series. The questions I am answering are embedded here. Clicking the link in the embedded question will take you to the original Reddit page where you can see the original answer along with other people's answers. If you wish to comment, you can do so on the Reddit page where a place to do so is provided.

In any case, as with all of my Reddit answers found on my site here, my original post on Reddit is much shorter then the article here.


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What Is This Site?

I'm an author. This is an author home page. It's about me, my life, my books, my hobbies, my home town, and anything else that applies to me and my life. 

Since starting my writing career in 1978, I have written 130+ novels, 2,000+ short stories, 6,000+ non-fiction articles (ALL are found on this site), a few dozen stage plays, 12,000+ blog posts, and a few comic book scripts for Disney's Uncle Scrooge and Donald Duck (I only worked for Disney one year (in 2005) and only wrote a few stories for their Danish comic books).

NOTE: I ONLY write the Quaraun series (aka The Twighlight Manor series aka The Adventures of Quaraun the Insane). In recent years there has been an issue with impersonators trying to pass books off as written by me, notably several non-fiction and Erotica books. I write neither nonfiction nor Erotica.

ALL of my books and their cover arts are listed on my website here. Beware of any books you find claiming to be me. If the books are NOT listed here on my website, they are NOT my books.

In fiction works, I specialize in Weird/Bizarro Tales set in 40th century CyberPunk-Quasi Medieval, Cozy Dark Fantasy and Science Fiction worlds featuring an intersex Elf and his Faerie husband main characters.  I DO NOT WRITE ANY OTHER SERIES - THIS SERIES IS THE ONLY ONE I WRITE.

Non-fiction (found ONLY here on my site) is daily updates of events in my life, and how-tos on how I write my novels.

I DO NOT write Erotica.

I DO NOT write books with HUMAN characters.

The Erotica books and books with Human characters, that you are finding, are written by scammers trying to impersonate me.

There is an ongoing FBI investigation into this matter. If you find any such books, please report them to FBI Agent Andy Drewer @207–774–9322

The FBI believes the people behind the impersonation accounts showing up, are relatives of the woman who murdered my son.

People always ask why I have a video recorder running 24/7. Watch these 4 videos of The Scarborough Walmart.


 I have a video recorder running 24/7. Because this parking lot is where I was attacked a second time by the woman who crippled me with the golf club at Southern Maine Community College in 2013 (who also murdered my 8-month-old son at the same time) this is the location of her 2nd attack,  the July 2016 attack with a shopping cart, the attack that left me in a wheelchair and despite over 200 "security cameras" and signs saying there are cameras in use... the police did not find even ONE actual REAL camera. Every "security camera" on this building and parking lot was ALL fake "dummy cameras" and that is why there is no video footage of my son's murderer. 

I started carrying a camera 24/7 the very next day after Scarborough police informed me they could not identify the blonde woman who attacked me or her gold Volvo 240GL station wagon, because EVERY CAMERA at this store's parking lot was an empty case with no real camera inside it. My son would be 12 years old this Christmas 2025, and his murderer walks free, still unidentified because this parking lot did not have real cameras. 

Those things that look like cameras on the building and light poles, are fake, according to the Scarborough Police Department. That is why I have a camera running 24/7, because my son's killer walks free because there was no camera the day we were attacked.


While you are here, please take the time to read this:

Who is Tod Murphy? 

Do you know who this woman is? She might be the woman who murdered my son. 

146 Portland Ave, Old Orchard Beach, Maine, is NOT FOR SALE.

And I'm sick of real estate agents who are too incompetent to research land ownership before they show up to stick a for sale sign in my yard.

The fact of the matter is, my son was murdered in 2013, and the friends and family of the murderer think it is funny to keep ILLEGALLY listing my land for sale, because apparently their child murdering bitch friend didn't hurt me enough by crippling me with a golf club, ripping my baby out of my 8 month pregnant belly and beating his brains out on the ground with a golf club.

Also, her friends and family like to gaslight me by doxing me on ufo and alien abduction forums, while pretending to be me, and trying to make it look like I believe in ufos or aliens, even though I think people who believe in ufos are raving lunatics and people who claim to be alien abductees are crazy. 

Worse, they've also taken to harassing my WW2 vet homeless friend, by calling HIM an alien, demon, or cryptid and sending alien crazy ufo nutjobs at try to "catch him".

So, yeah, my son was murdered and the murder's friends and family endlessly harass me, my friends, and my family both online and offline, and I'm not happy with it at all.

There is an ongoing FBI investigation into this matter.

The FBI is looking for information into:

  1. identifying my son's murderer, 
  2. identifying the scammers who listed my land for sale, 
  3. identifying the impersonators who pretend to be me both online and offline, 
  4. the harassers who are harassing the homeless man and sending the UFO nuts to harass him... 
  • If ANYONE tells you 146 Portland Ave Old Orchard Beach, Maine is for sale:, please report them to FBI Agent Andy Drewer @207–774–9322
  • If ANYONE tells you I believe in aliens, demons, or UFOS, please report them to FBI Agent Andy Drewer @207–774–9322
  • If ANYONE tells you my homeless friend is an alien, a demon, a cryptid, or named Etiole for sale:, please report them to FBI Agent Andy Drewer @207–774–9322


I'm going to repeat it because I'm tired of people showing up and making offers:

146 Portland Ave, Old Orchard Beach, Maine, is NOT FOR SALE.

There is NO ONE who has authorization to use my land.

NO ONE.

Not my mother.

Not my father.

Not Ben.

Not my mother’s Atwater relatives.

No one.

If ANY ONE hires you to do ANYTHING on my land, know that you are doing it ILLEGALLY and WITHOUT my knowledge or permission.

My mother has ZERO legal right to hire you to do anything at 146 Portland Ave. Old Orchard Beach, Maine.

My father has ZERO legal right to hire you to do anything at 146 Portland Ave. Old Orchard Beach, Maine.

Ben has ZERO legal right to hire you to do anything at 146 Portland Ave. Old Orchard Beach, Maine.

My mother’s Atwater relatives have ZERO legal right to hire you to do anything at 146 Portland Ave. Old Orchard Beach, Maine.




While you are here, please take the time to read this:

Who is Tod Murphy? 

Do you know who this woman is? She might be the woman who murdered my son. 




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