EelKat Wendy C Allen - Dark Fantasy Author










The Princess Bride predicting Covid-19?

EXTREME SPOILER WARNING!

Please be aware that nearly every page on this website contains spoilers to something. I talk about a lot of fandoms, and go into great detail analyzing them when I do. If I am talking about The Witcher series, InuYasha, Disney Ducks, the Quaraun series, or any other fandom, you WILL encounter spoilers about it. 

EK's STAR LOG
CATEGORY ARCHIVES:
How valuable is a writer’s group?

As has been requested (endlessly) EK's Star Log is returning to the internet. You can still read the original archive here... https://eelkat.wordpress.com 

The reason you couldn't find it is because I set it to private un-index mode, meaning it no longer shows up in Google search results and can only be accessed by a direct link.

Meaning, if you didn't have the url for it, no amount of searching for it would tell you how to find it. Anyone who had the url could still access it though.

I had set it to private September 23, 2013, intending to move each page here to EelKat.com... however, November 14, 2013, after only moving about 30 pages, I was beaten up and left paralyzed for 5 months, then spent 18 months relearning to walk. I am still crippled and have limited mobility.

Below is one of the blog posts that originally appeared on EK's Star Log. The original articles are still online but no longer indexed in Google. Links to the original article, are included with this post, as is the original posting date. Clicking the links will take you to the original site, where you can see the old Space Dock 13 website still online. Space Dock 13 as it looked when hosted on WordPress from 2003 to 2013.




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How valuable is a writer’s group?

Here's an old fan favorite. The original forum post got 173,000 likes, and resulted in a mass flood of traffic to my blog. Here it is, the original question I was asked, my original answer... and the forum troll's response, with my response to the troll.

Enjoy!

~EelKat (May 28, 2017)


How valuable is a writer’s group if all the writers are unpublished other than self-publishing or unpaid outlets?

Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2012 | Comments Off

“HOW VALUABLE IS A WRITER’S GROUP IF ALL THE WRITERS ARE UNPUBLISHED OTHER THAN SELF-PUBLISHING OR UNPAID OUTLETS? WRITING STORIES THAT OTHER UNPUBLISHED AUTHORS ENJOY IS A FINE THING, BUT IS NOT EVIDENCE THAT THE STORIES THEMSELVES ARE FINE THINGS. ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS I FACE IS THE PUBLISHED AUTHORS (AS IN PUBLISHED BY A LEGIT, TRADITIONAL PUBLISHER) ARE  FEW AND FAR BETWEEN. THERE ARE LOTS OF SUCCESSFUL (DEFINED AS SELLING ENOUGH COPIES TO MAKE A FEW THOUSAND DOLLARS) SELF-PUBLISHED AUTHORS OUT THERE. MY GOAL IS NOT TO IMPRESS OTHER UNPUBLISHED AUTHORS, BUT TO IMPRESS SOMEBODY IN A POSITION TO SIGN A CONTRACT OR WRITE A CHECK. IF THAT ROLE IS NOT REPRESENTED IN THE DISCUSSION, THEN WHAT IS THE REAL BANKABLE VALUE OF MY PARTICIPATION?”







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My Answer:

First off, can I point out that Joe Koranth, John Knox, and Amanda Hocking are all self-published authors, each of whom are bringing in MONTHLY incomes of $35,000, which means they are earning more per month than the average traditional published author makes per year.

Don’t know who they are? Google them.

And before you say they are flukes, consider that there is a huge difference between a hobbyist who self publishes 1 or 2 books in their entire life time while sitting on their tuffet waiting for sales, and a self published author who does this as a full time career, published 3 or 4 novels a year 5 or 10 short stories a month, and has a full team of cover artists, editors, and marketers helping them.

When you say the average self publisher is only making a few thousand dollars per year, I laugh. That’s not a self publisher. That’s a person with no clue how to run a business, who thinks slapping a single ebook up is going to make them a writer.

News flash: writers write.

Strange but true.

Writers write a lot.

Career writers who write for a living write several novels a year and several short stories a week and several non-fiction articles a month.

Writers DO NOT spend 3 years working on a single novel. Hobbyists with an outside career do that.

Yes, the average hobbyist makes only a few thousand dollars a year, if they make that much at all. However, the average traditional published writer earns $24,000 a year, and the average self publisher earns $56,000 a year. Average high end traditional publisher earn $120,000 a year, while average high end self publishers earn $400,000 a year.

Also remember there are those little self published books out there, you may have heard of them: Eragon by Christopher Paolini. Or maybe you saw the movie? Perhaps you bought your kids the toys? It was not only self published, it was self published by a 14 year old kid.

Never heard of it, well let’s think, bigger, more famous. How about Gary Gygax and his little self published set of books titled: Dungeons and Dragons Player’s Handbook, The Dungeon Master’s Guide, and The Monster Manuel. Still self published to this day. 

Or maybe Tracy Hickman’s self published book titled Ravenloft.

Don’t suppose you ever heard of Resident Evil, right? Self published books. Self published video games. It's even a self published movie. Who knew?

Still need a bigger one? Here’s one to knock your socks off, how about a little self published booklet with a set of cards that was titled Magic The Gathering. And in spite of being a multi BILLION dollar business today is STILL self published by a tiny little indie press known as Wizards of the Coast.

You might want to rethink self publishing. Seriously. When you start researching self publishing, you’ll find out fast that the biggest players in the industry are NOT the traditional publishers, but the self publishers.

And please, don’t confuse the full-time writers with people who write in between a full time job. They are apples and oranges. Full time self publishers don’t have time for a job other than writing.

But getting past that and on to your main question: Is there value in a group with unpublished writers? Yes, of course there is. We as humans learn best from other people’s mistakes, and who makes more mistakes in writing, than some one just starting out? New writer’s excel at helping other new writers to learn what not to do. Because new writers are so eager to learn new things, they are also very eager to warn others “don’t do this, I tried that and it doesn’t work”

But yeah, I can see your point. Self publishers who hang out on groups ted to be the hobbyists, not the career writers. As for the traditional writers, it’s usually in their contract that they can’t hang out on forums like this for fear they’ll embarrass the company. Thus yes, finding a place to rub elbows with the big boys is not an easy thing to do, and you will find yourself having to settle for every one else. But really, that’s not a bad thing, when you consider that the big boys started out small same as the rest of us.

As for impressing the guy with the check, it’s my experience (as both a writer and a publisher) that publishers do not hang out on the same forums as writers, and when they do, it’s not because they are looking for “new talent”.

I know it’s commonly said that getting your work out there is going to attract the attention of publishers, but this is simply untrue.  I have been working in publishing since 1978. I can tell you right now that there is NO SUCH THING as a publisher who is searching websites looking for talent. Publishers receive hundreds of submissions a week, thousands more per year than they can ever get around to reading, let alone publishing. No publisher has either the time or even a reason to be “seeking new talent” on the web. So hoping to find “the guy with the check” in any online group is somewhat of a silly ideal.</